Elaina sits down with Kari Baker, author of Finding KiND: Discovering Hope and Purpose While Loving Kids with Invisible Neurological Differences, and talks about special needs parenting, autism spectrum, and supporting other families on the same journey.
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Elaina Marchenko: Hi everyone. Thank you for coming back and listening to Key Ministry the podcast. We're so happy to have everyone and have you listening. And we have a great special guest today, Kari Baker, who just put out a book, Finding KiND, discovering Hope and Purpose while Loving Kids with Invisible Neurological Differences. And I just finished reading it and a bunch of other people on our team as well. And so we just wanted to interview you, ask you some questions and hear more about your story and what God's doing in you and Brady's life, and we're just so thankful to have you today.
Kari Baker: Well, thanks so much for having me. I look forward to it.
Elaina Marchenko: Yes, thanks. So we would love it if you could give a little bit of an intro. Those of us that have read your book, I told you before, I feel like we already know you.
Kari Baker: I definitely shared a lot in the book, so if you haven't read it, if you want to know me, that's the best way to do it.
Elaina Marchenko: Yeah, anyone that hasn't had a chance yet to read it, we'd love to just hear about you and your story a little bit and a little bit about your book before we get into some of the other things today.
Kari Baker: Well, so I actually was a financial services executive for many, many years, almost 30 years, and never really imagined doing anything different. I got married a little bit later. I had my son Brady when I was almost 40, so a little bit later than most women plan on, and really just kind of expected to have the typical parenting experience, I think like most parents do. And when my son was around two, we started noticing some differences in him and just in the way that he related to other kids in preschool. That was kind of my first time in watching him interact with other children. And I started noticing some major differences about just his desire to not be in proximity to a lot of the kids. Sometimes at play dates he would run away or just try to be as far away from the other kids as possible.
He had some things going on with his speech and his body movements and balance and just being able to throw a ball, catch a ball, those kinds of things were really, really hard for him. And long story short, we came to understand that Brady was on the autism spectrum, and I'm happy to share how that happened. It was a real God moment. I think God had been dropping all of these little hints to me for a couple of years, and they were going right over my head. And although I had that little mother instinct saying, "maybe we should get him evaluated, maybe we should have him talk to somebody." And then God just decided it was time to open my eyes and put a magazine in front of me one day about a woman whose son was autistic. He was diagnosed with Asperger's many years ago.
They don't diagnose that anymore. They just have everything under the autism spectrum. But her description of her son, Dave, was just spot on to Brady as a child. So she had a quiz at the bottom of that article that you could go on. And I took this online quiz and 15 questions later of which I answered "yes" to every single one. The box popped up that said I should have my son evaluated for autism spectrum disorder. So that was really the beginning of our journey, and I didn't question that when it came up. There was an understanding, there was no denial period, which I think happens with a lot of parents because it was just like all the pieces of the puzzle had fallen into place. And so we started our journey from there and getting a formal evaluation, starting therapies, trying to figure out how to do preschool, community activities, all the things, and we're really just running a million miles an hour trying to fix it and try to get back to that original typical parenting path that I thought I was going to be on.
And the farther we got down the road, the more it became apparent that that path was long gone. So it took me a long time to come to terms with who Brady is with all the challenges that he has. His gifts and talents are immense, and I was really kind of blinded to that by all of my striving and my disappointment and all the other feelings of isolation that come with getting a diagnosis that you just are not expecting. And so over the years, as I started to lean into my faith, which was the biggest catalyst for change for me, I started going to a church. And as God seems to do when he's really pulling you close, all of a sudden all the messages you're receiving seem like they're coming straight at you. Every sermon, it was like, how did he know to preach that today?
And I started attending Bible study and digging into the word, and really just over a long period of time changed my perspective completely and was fortunate enough in 2023, I'd had a practice that was a successful financial services practice. I helped companies manage 401k plans, so very different from what I'm doing today, but God put a buyer in front of me to buy that business from me. And I was able to step back and really start the wheels turning for KiND families. And that led to a podcast, the KiND Families Podcast, and then the book Finding KiND, which is really our family's story of figuring out that Brady had autism and ADHD, which came later. And then really adjusting to life in that season of dealing with the schools, some of the disappointments, but then also some of those awakenings that started to happen within us.
And then the whole last section of the book, which I really couldn't have written until we'd seen Brady grow and develop and mature in the last four or five years. Those are his success stories. Those are his victory stories and the stories of how he overcame really big things and how he impacted other people and in their lives and really changed their trajectory because of who he is and who God made him to be. So now that's really what KiND Families Mission is to do, is to reach out to these families that maybe are a little bit earlier on in the path than we are now. We've still got a long way to go. He's almost 14 years old, which seems hard to believe, but we've still got a lot of years of high school and beyond of figuring things out for him that doing it now with the foundation that God made him on purpose for a purpose and he doesn't make mistakes. And knowing that he chose me to be his mom, to be Brady's mom for a reason. So that's really the encouragement that we're trying to put out there for other KiND families now.
Elaina Marchenko: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. I think you talk about this a little bit in the book about being entrusted to be Brady's mom and being his person that God picked out of everybody he picked out of every single person in the world. He said, no, you're going to be Brady's mom, and you were maybe not the "right person" Because none of us are ready. Nobody is a hundred percent ready with anything that God gives us, but God choosing you and equipping you as you go, I think that's just such a powerful message. And I love that.
Kari Baker: I have a great story that just happened yesterday that I have to share because I was at my Bible study table and there was a new woman who came who I'd never met before, and she's probably in her mid to late sixties and was real quiet at first. And then I mentioned something about Brady with autism, having autism, and all of a sudden she just kind of sat up straight and she started telling her story. Her son is now in his mid forties, but was diagnosed with Asperger's when he was three or four years old. And she said, I remember the doctor telling me, you have a beautiful child, but he'll never go to a regular school. He'll never drive a car. He'll never graduate from high school. He'll never get married. And she said, I went home that day and I started vacuuming. And I was like, well, that was not my response. But she said that while she was vacuuming, she felt, God, tell her "I chose you, Judy. I chose you." And I told her I wish I'd had that realization a lot earlier. I wish it had just taken a car ride home from the doctor's office and a little bit of vacuuming, but it took me years to get to that point. But she was tuned in to God's voice and he said, "I chose you for this." And that's exactly how I feel in my journey with Brady.
Elaina Marchenko: Yeah, and you talk a little bit at the beginning as you're sharing your journey of how it took you maybe longer than you would've liked to go through this process with Brady and with his diagnosis, you talk about feeling shame and you clarify it's not shame of him, and it's not shame of my kid, but you say, actually I have it here, "I was ashamed. I had failed to produce a human who was a perfect fit for the world around me." Which I think so many people can relate to just that feeling of shame you were carrying in yourself. So I'm wondering how do you feel when shame was kind of maybe, I don't want to say ruling that, but yeah, when shame was kind of the main factor or the main feeling you had, how do you feel like that affected your parenting with Brady? Do you feel like it affected Brady?
Kari Baker: Well, I mean it absolutely impacted how we related to the rest of the world for a long time because I kept Brady's diagnosis a secret from anyone that wasn't very close family or very close friends. And I mean, we did tell teachers and obviously worked with therapists and that sort of thing, but I felt like I had to keep up this image of the perfect family with the perfect kid. And so when people would even ask me, he had an aide in preschool that went to school with him every day, and she tried to make it seem like she wasn't just focused on Brady. She was wonderful, and she'd work with all of the kids in the classroom, but the parents knew and they would ask me, well, why does Brady have an aide in the classroom? And I would just say, oh, he's got some developmental delays that we're working on. And I mean, we really didn't even say the word autism in the house, which is crazy,
But I had no knowledge of autism when we figured out that that's what Brady had. And I had a really scary negative image of autism in my brain because I didn't have any kind of positive role model that showed that they could grow up, they could have these wonderful lives, they could get married, they can do all these wonderful things. I just had the scary stories playing in my head, and I didn't want other people who might also just have those scary stories in their head to say, oh, I don't want my son to play with Brady, or, oh, we need to stay away from the Baker family. And I had that so drilled into my head that I would just pretend like everything was fine when it was so obvious that it wasn't, we weren't on this typical parenting path. I mean, we would go to parties at school and it was the hardest thing because all the other moms would be there with their kids and they'd enjoy doing the crafts.
Brady wanted nothing to do with the crafts, so I was just dragging him back to the crafts and he didn't want to be at the crafts. And so he'd run or it would get loud and chaotic, and I would just be like, "everything's fine." And "Oh, come on Brady, don't you want to do this craft with your friends" and try to pretend like he was something that he wasn't, to try to impress these other parents that I was, that typical parent that I had thought I was going to be. And it was exhausting. It was exhausting, and it didn't do me any good. It didn't do Brady any good. You asked if it impacted him. I don't know. I think at the time he was too young to understand. We didn't say autism in the house, so it wasn't like he knew he was autistic and that we were hiding that from the rest of the world.
But when we did tell him about his autism and ADHD, that's when it really struck me that, "oh my gosh, I don't want him to be ashamed of who he is or whatever this piece of paper is that says that his brain is wired in a certain way. I don't ever want him to be afraid to tell somebody." I want him to make sure that he's talking to a trusted person when he tells people that he's on the spectrum, because there are still unfortunately some people who don't have good hearts with that in mind. So when we told him, when I told him me doing everything over the top, like I always do. I had a presentation and I had a poem and I had videos that I showed him and all these kinds of things to explain what autism is, and ADHD and I had a list of all the famous people that have autism and ADHD.
And at the end of it, I didn't really think he got it, of course. He said, "well, can I just have some screen time now?" And I said, "yes, please go leave mama alone and got to process all this myself". But the next day his teacher called me and she said, "Kari, I just have to tell you what Brady said in class today. We were talking about anxiety and we were saying what kinds of things would cause anxiety? And the kids were raising their hands and saying, oh, if you had to speak in front of a bunch of people, or you had to stand on the edge of a tall building looking down. And Brady raised his hand and he said, if you knew you were different, but you didn't know why that would cause anxiety." And that was really a turning point for me too, in that I don't ever want him to feel anxiety because he has to pretend to be somebody that he's not. I want to give him skills to be able to function in a world that's not really set up for him with a population that understands how to relate and respond to him. But I don't ever want him to feel that, and I certainly don't want those feelings to ever come because of something I was doing to downplay or try to shapeshift or have that invisibility cloak I talk about in the book about who he is.
Elaina Marchenko: Well, I think a lot of people can understand too though, you're trying to protect him. Like you said, you didn't want, you had this image of something and you're thinking of this image of autism that you have, and then you're looking at your kid and they're not the same.
You're saying, I don't want to put that on him. You don't know any better and you want to protect him. But yeah, it's interesting that it seems like telling him finally and accepting it in your home kind of gives him and you this freedom of freedom, like you said, shape shifting or hiding things. And like he said, freedom from not understanding because now it's just, nope, that's, oh, that's my autism and moving on. And I've seen lot of people find a lot of freedom in that as well, not wondering, why is this bothering me? Why do I need these things?
Kari Baker: Or thinking that there's something wrong with him or there's something that he's not smart because he can't do timed math problems at the same way that other kids can and those kinds of things that the ways that it impacts him are not because there's anything wrong with him, and I want him to be secure in that.
Elaina Marchenko: Yeah. You talked too about not feeling equipped to be a special needs mom or an autism mom. Can you talk to us more about that imposter syndrome of that? And I think so many people experience in general, we all experience imposter syndrome with something, but I think especially special needs parents. And maybe in that time when it's kind of acknowledging the diagnosis and kind of morphing your life into not the typical path you thought you would take,
Kari Baker: Right, right. Well, I think especially when we were keeping it really close to the vest. I mean, we were trying everything that, I mean, I would be sitting in a provider's waiting room while Brady was in, and if another mom talked about something and Oh, we went to see Dr. Mike and Dr. Mike was awesome and he did this. I was like, what's Dr. Mike's number? And we did all of these things trying to find that one special switch, the light switch that would go on that would make things easier for him. And some of them, we saw some differences, and some of them were a year later, I'm like, I can't believe I put Brady through that. I'm so sorry, honey. I mean, nothing bad, nothing like that.
But, there was this feeling like, oh my gosh, I've got this kid who every doctor has told me, if you've met one kid with autism, you've met one kid with autism, so what do I do? And there was no rule book. There was no list like you do A, B, C, and D. There was some guidance on what types of therapies he needed, but I just felt like we were flailing for the longest times and we were throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what would stick. And it dawned on me, again, through this course of building my faith and learning that the way Brady is also isn't a result of something I was doing wrong or I did wrong, that helped me kind of get to a point where it was, I knew that I was the best person for the job because God had put me there.
But until I had that confidence that can only come from Holy Spirit intervention, that I was the right person for it, I just felt lost a lot of times. And what I talked about in the book that I finally realized is that you don't have to feel equipped because feeling equipped, is just a feeling and feelings don't do anything. Feelings are sometimes good at alerting us to something that we might need to change, but just because I felt equipped doesn't mean I wasn't equipped. And what I needed to do is just be effective. And what that meant was putting one step forward every single day. So what is the next right thing that I need to do for my child? And the more you do that, and the more you kind of see that some of those right steps actually make a positive impact, that confidence starts to build that you're exactly who your child needs in the moment.
And with everything that's happened with KiND families, I mean, God has just confirmed this in my heart that I never imagined, especially when he was diagnosed, and even for many years after that KiND families would exist and that I would be talking to other parents and encouraging other parents and speaking at conferences. And I mean, that was nowhere on my radar. And I just know now that all the things that I went through and the struggles that I personally had to overcome were preparing me for this path that God wanted to put us on our whole family. And Brady had to be a part of that too. He had to be okay with me writing the book and talking about his stories, which some of which are hard, and God giving him the self-assurance to say, oh, it's okay, mom. To share those stories with other families is just incredible.
Elaina Marchenko: And I love that. I just want to say giving your kid that agency because I think there's a line to walk, as you I'm sure know, and you don't want to overexpose your kid in the name of helping people because it's still your kid and you want to protect them, but you also realize how helpful it is to hear stories that are less than perfect or tantrums or whatever it is, to be able to write about that from a Christian perspective and from a mom's perspective and how helpful that is for other people. But I love that you give him the agency to say, no, that I don't want you to share this. No, you can keep that at home, but you could put this story in.
Kari Baker: Well, the funny thing with him too is I hadn't thought about him writing the forward for the book, and we were just talking about it over dinner one night, and I said, and I will admit this. He said, well, maybe I could write the forward and I tend to be a little bit of a control freak. You would probably get that in the book as well. And I said, well, okay, well, why don't you give it a try and we'll see what you write and how it sounds. And he brought it in and it was just perfect. I mean, we made a few grammatical changes to it, but it just reflected exactly who he is and the things that he loves. And I thought it was such a great way to start the book by giving his perspective on what it's like to be the kid with autism and ADHD and what it feels like to him. And instead of me just assuming everything that I am taking out of the story is what he took out of the story.
Elaina Marchenko: Exactly, yeah. And it gives your story and your book so much credibility in that way too. Not that you would say it's not credible without him, but having that his forward and his seal of approval is just so special. And as a reader, I loved reading that first You are like, I don't know Brady yet. Okay, yeah,
Kari Baker: Now you do!
Elaina Marchenko: And this is his perspective. And as you read, you have that in mind and you kind of feel like you get to know him as well. And so I think that was just such, that's such a special part of it. I loved it. Can you tell us a little bit about KiND Families? We've heard about it a little bit, but maybe some of the main programs you do or kind of what your goal is?
Kari Baker: Sure, sure. Well, first I should mention that kind stands for Kids with Invisible Neurological Differences. And that came about, again, I feel like God put that on my lap kind of early on before the book was even a thing, that it's not just autism, it's not just ADHD, but there are so many neurological differences out there that impact the way kids or adults respond to the world, relate with others. And there's so many similarities between all different kinds of diagnoses. So if you look at a kid with sensory processing disorder or anxiety or dyslexia, even those kinds of things, and autism and ADHD, all share certain characteristics in that they will struggle with certain aspects of being in school or being in the community, but if you looked at them sitting in their desk in school, they look like just every other kid in the classroom. So I felt like there was a little bit of a lack of grace sometimes.
Now I say that and always couch it with the fact that I'm so grateful for all the things that Brady can do, that he can walk, he can talk. I'm grateful in many ways for the invisibility of his condition, but it also lends itself to folks expecting things out of him that maybe aren't realistic based on the way his brain is wired. So that was really where that KiND umbrella came from, and it's expanding. I had a mom reach out through the website and say, what about traumatic brain injury? She had a daughter that had been in a terrible car accident, and it permanently impacted her brain to the point where, again, she looks just like every other child, but she's processing things in a much different way. So that's kind of the umbrella of KiND. And for right now, it's encouragement through writing through the podcast, we've got the KiND Families podcast, and I have all different kinds of providers and other moms, adults on the spectrum, employers that hire people who are neurodiverse.
I have authors who've written books on different parenting paths. And then the book is really kind of the focus that we've got right now and trying to get this in the hands of parents who need it. I mean, the greatest, oh gosh, the greatest honor for me is when a mom reaches out to me and says, oh my gosh, I read this and I saw myself and I cried because I just knew exactly what you were talking about. And I also want them to laugh. I tried to put some humor in there. I think that's very important for KiND families to be able to see humor in things and be able to laugh. But so right now I am doing conferences and webinars and just trying to get the word out. Going forward, longer term, I do see maybe KiND family support groups starting up in churches and other organizations.
I've got a long-term vision of being able to support families with behavioral therapists in community situations. That's a longer term kind of project and passion as well. But for right now, I just want parents to know they're not alone, and I want them to understand through the faith component, which I understand isn't going to resonate with everybody who picks up the book, but I don't know how I would've gotten to the other side without finding God just right there in the middle of it. And if it's, I started writing in 2018 when the KiND thing came to me and I wrote a lot of stuff, but I really hadn't been developed in my faith to the point yet where I felt equipped, like we were talking about to write anything that was faith-based. And I think God, in his timing, he gave me those extra years, five years to grow in my faith and become more mature in it. And I realized that I can't write this book without faith in it because that is the component for me and for Brady that keeps us going forward, that gives us confidence in who we are and hope in where we're going in our purpose. And so I am really hoping that there's some folks that might even just pick up this book and start to explore faith a little bit more.
Elaina Marchenko: Yeah, I love that. That's exciting. Well, I'm excited to see how God uses KiND and the book and your story, and I know he will. Oh, thank you. I do have one more question. Okay, go ahead. Go for it. You talked about the grief you had in not having that typical parenting experience that you expected, but what I loved is that you also, you didn't stay there. You also shared how God brought you into joy, and it's what we're talking about, how God changes everything, how he sustained you and brought you to the other side, like you said. But can you just tell us about that? About going from, and it's okay. I mean there might still be a place for grief now, and there might in every step of the way we were talking, I have siblings who are adults with special needs, and my parents still have grief at every step because you're missing things aren't going to be how you expected them maybe at every milestone. But how did God kind take that grief for you and give you joy that you said in the book, this layer of heaviness kept me from joy that was available to me. How did God give you that joy?
Kari Baker: Yeah, so it was really through opening my eyes to some of the gifts and talents that Brady has showing me who he could be through who he was right there. And it was a lot of what I was missing while I was busy pretending that we were the perfect trouble free family and trying to hide all of the things that were hard. And one of the first things that I remember woke me up one morning is there was a Sunday morning right before Christmas, and Brady had never really been able to participate in preschool or Sunday school events where the kids all got up on stage and sang a song and did the hand motions and all that. And it was right before Christmas. And I remember the Sunday school class was going to come up and do this song, and we had this beautiful, wonderful children's pastor who loved Brady more than anything, and she gave me the song, a recording of it in advance. And so we practiced it at home. And I remember that Sunday morning just kind of being in that tense posture of, oh gosh, he's going to run off again. And he stood up on that stage and sang that song and did the motions. And I am getting choked up talking about it now. And I just remember tears streaming down my face that was this glimmer of hope that God was showing me through him. It's not always going to be the way it is. There is going to be progress.
There's going to be maturity. And from that point forward, I started in kindergarten and first grade. I would always, as I mentioned, just kind of dread those school parties that I would have to go to. But the Mother's Day party in first grade was the one I write about in the book where he wrote this incredible creative writing story. And at first it was kind of startling. It was called, my mom's name is Mrs. Avocado. And I was like, Mrs. Avocado, what? And all the other moms were getting, my mom is so sweet, my mom is the best cook. My mom gives the best hugs. And I'm like, I'm Mrs. Avocado? Oh gosh, why can't I just have a normal experience in one of these? They turned out to be this incredible creative writing story. And as he read it, I mean, I noticed all the other moms looking over at me and thinking, oh man, I wish I'd gotten a story like that.
My story sounded just like every other kid. And that was just those little drips and the glimpses of who Brady was made to be coming through. It lifted the grief. Now we still have it. We still deal with bullying, we still deal with school choices and all of those things that are hard, but I have now all these experiences that I can look back on and see that who Brady is is going to help us get to that next step. And that wherever we land, there's something that God has for us in that place. And even if it's for a short time, that's going to help us get to that next step for him.
Elaina Marchenko: I love that. Well, thank you so much for sharing. I loved your book and I love talking to you. And like I said, I feel like I know you and Brady.
Kari Baker: Oh, thank you so much.
Elaina Marchenko: So if we don't meet one day in person, we will in heaven. We'll get to see each other, but just thank you so much for taking time and chatting with us today.
Kari Baker: Thank you. And I would just tell people if they want to reach out to me, kindfamilies.com and I try to answer any kind of comments or questions that come through there too.
Elaina Marchenko: That's awesome. We'll make sure, and we'll link that kind in our for this podcast episode. So we'll make sure for all of Kari's stuff.
Kari Baker: Well, thank you again, Elaina. I loved it.
Elaina Marchenko: No, thank you.
